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    Why Symbian AND MeeGo Are Best For Nokia

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Postby arun8gb » 08 Jul 2010, 18:26


Aj most ppl don't have an idea what phone OS they use. Its just the manufacturer they know.

And ppl are vomiting out their anger on Nokia.


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Postby AJ___92 » 08 Jul 2010, 18:42


thats why asked :P

usualy a question brings the brain to think about about it !
and if people do not know the answer they have 2 possibilities:

say something wrong or google and answer right :P
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Postby swap002 » 09 Jul 2010, 03:46


labalbi
I'm ugly huh! Mayne you just can't mix with ppl here. Sorry for one more attack but ppl like you come here, spit the shit and destroy good environment here at SF. You just don't how to have debate. And mayne don't doubt my english I'm just speaking it through mouth of gentleman so it sounds good.
Anyways ignoring ppl like u is always better a choice. HaHaHa
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Postby shazada » 10 Jul 2010, 02:07


Anyway guys,

Have you seen the 12mp pics on the N8?
You really can't compare it to the Iphone.
Or the multi-tasking feature the Iphone provides.

I use my N97 all the time and have all the right apps which I need. I even use multi-tasking all the time.......the only thing it lacks is the HW. I hope that they can overcome it with the N8.
too bad it hasn't got a qwerty keyboard.

Chill dudes.......still I think right now symbian is still the best OS for mobile phones. I've got a samsung running on Windows Mobile and I have to restart it 2 times a day. My friend has got an HTC with Android and the same. So I think we can actually compare the OS'es with each other if you use them for a while. And I'm not talking about 1 week.
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Postby christexaport » 10 Jul 2010, 20:17


Espinha wrote:Thank you so much breathless for making this post, I was appalled that no one was pointing the obvious at such a biased post!


While I certainly made a stance on what OS/ecosystem I preferred and why, I wouldn't consider that bias. I just value certain philosophies, principles, and accessibilities that others simply can't provide. I didn't just favor it because of brand allegiance, nationalism, or habit, but a technical foundation that allows me and my constituents to experience and employ technology no matter our financial limitations, network capacities, or geographical presence.

This may totally conflict with your needs or expectations, and this is totally okay...for you. You sound like you care little about how technology affects those in society across the globe, or how lack of access to things like the web, an open development ecosystem with full API access, and Flash technologies can create a subclass of citizens at a clear disadvantage. I find that elitist and irresponsible as a citizen of a global society, especially with the current oil spill, wars, and climate change issues troubling us all. The scientist whose only computer may be a $285 cellphone could hold the clue to solving some of those maladies, yet ecosystems other than Nokia's seem to minimize those that can afford less for the needs of the larger spenders. This can block access to the life saving knowledge of our colleagues across the planet, or burden them with crippled, hampered platforms from which they must try to deploy their ideas.

Qt eliminates this barrier, and that is why I support it. I support no technology which intends to limit the ability of the user without reason. And doing it so it can run a pretty UI when a fully functional alternative exists with the full power needed and more extensibility only helps to stregthen this barrier. Remember, Google can always bring its UI talents to Symbian, and it would only cost $1500 a year to do so. Why avoid something free and more advanced, especially as a promoter of open source. Open source rule number one is never do the same work twice. But isn't Google doing just that?

The looks and glitz matter more to you, and you seem to care little about how the decisions of the OS makers can affect you, society, and the future of mobile technology. Have this attitude at your peril. History has shown what happens when you think of instant gratification without future consequences. Two famous sayings came from that lesson:

BEWARE OF GREEKS BEARING GIFTS, and...
NEVER LOOK A GIFT HORSE IN THE MOUTH.

I'm going to do some commenting of my own as well, which will hopefully enlighten some of the readers to the fallacies and incorrections of the OP.

First and foremost we are graced with a long speech on hardware specs and how Symbian runs on hardware with low specs. Well, that's not true at all.


Well this should be entertaining...

For starters, Symbian v5 won't even run on older devices; granted it was created for touch devices but still, it has newer features that will never make it to the N95 powerhouse for example. Then there's something also wrong about bringing specs into the discussion. Phones evolve in terms of hardware, it's always been like that and as you probably know, the Nokia 7650 didn't have nowhere as high specs as these devices nowadays do and that's just the way it is, normal evolution. Just like you don't try to run Windows XP in an Intel 8086, you also don't try to run SymbianOS v5 on 7650.


Symbian S60 5th Edition won't run on ANY device without a touchscreen, but aside from that, I totally disagree with you. If the N95 had a touch display, its hardware would have been suitable for S60 5th based on the devices that have run the OS. Compare the 5800 XM to the N95 and see it was much lower specced. The N95 was an OMAP3 device, just like the i8910 HD.

These "new" features you mentioned? Care to name them, and show what hardware limitations the N95 possessed? Aside from an azimuth sensor, or a compass for the laymen, there has been little advancements from ANY mobile OS not already introduced or enabled by the N95 platform years ago, showing just how big of a lead the N95 and Nokia had in 2007.

The actual point I intended to make was that the OS can be run stably with decent performance using much cheaper, lower grade hardware, and could get more performance from the higher grade hardware than other OSes. This is evident when you realize that the competitors can't even do full multitasking without fear of "sucking your battery dry" as Steve Jobs said himself of iOS. Coming from a desktop environment where this is the norm using massive 1000 watt power supplies, Symbian is underlauded for just exactly what it does under the hood. Once the next generation of advanced applications comes to mobile, like the Photoshops, ProTools, Nuendos, and Final Cut Pros of the desktop world, then this will be more evident.

Then the OP mentions maturity of the platform is great on Maemo because it's 5 years old BUT in actual fact it's much older than that because it's as old as Linux. Great one.


I think I made that point as well in my post, but if not, I have many other times in other posts. Maemo is the touch enabling of Linux, and the touch enablement began long ago as well. Which is my point. Do you actually think Android or iOS can remove most of the advancement of Linux/Unix and supplant it in a few short years?


Android is just as old then and if you consider that WP7 will have some reminiscence of Windows, then it's also about as old, maybe a little bit younger. Blackberry would be the youngest but I reckon their platform is actually pretty solid and that's evident by the sheer number of followers that just love it and don't trade it for anything else. Likewise, the iPhone OS is also very old because it's based on Mac OS X which in turn is based on BSD, can you get older than that?


Your thinking is flawed. You ignore the fact that Android only uses the Linux kernel, not the entire software stack. So Android is as old as Linux like a Bugatti Veyron is as old as a Ford Model T. The concept is the same, but Android ditched most of the technology and replaced it with newer, immature, nascent replacements. Just compare Qt and GTK to Android's Dalvik VM for example. If you intend to compare things, know what is being compared. Just like WP7 will share SOME of Windows architecture, not as much as WinMo, hence its lack of maturity in comparison, meaning loss of code compatibility. What good is it to retain heritage if it brings zero compatibility?

Blackberry has an old and outdated runtime suppport, basing most of its ecosystem around Java, like S40. So in my opinion, it has an immature, unadvanced ecosystem. But you may be judging on some other metric...

The OP also seems to be very quick to dismiss the question of apps, in terms of quantity and quality, maybe because it's a topic that Symbian users don't like to address, much less Symbian fanboys.

I made little mention because I don't feel number of apps is a good metric of measure. None of the apps available on any OS would be impossible to do on Symbian, but there can be made apps that would not be suitable for its competitors because of the lack of certain API accesses for background apps.

The fact is that Symbian can grow the same way Android, iOS, and others have, and has proven to be able to grow as well. The engines for this growth are in their infancy, but you will likely see the most explosive growth in this space soon. I hope you enjoy the taste of crow. I noticed Apple's growth is beginning to stagnate this year in the US. Could there be a saturation point for any OS in terms of apps? Where will developers search for new ground? I'm guessing Android and Symbian. What about you?

In the original post, we find the following sentence "I don't think Android holds a candle to Symbian at this stage of its development, however elegant its UI may be". This reveals a deep lack of knowledge of business in software development because you know, to the end-user, the UI **IS** the software. I read a great article about this but I can't seem to find it right now. But anyway, back to the issue of apps: Symbian's app ecosystem is small and lacks in quality. Sure, you have the "famous" apps like GPS software and things of the like, but you lack the games and the helper apps that allow you to do things with your phone that you never thought were possible. Moreso, all Nokia phones so far have a resistive screen which only allows one touch at a time, as opposed to the capacitive screens used by Apple, HTC et al that support multi-touch, making the experience so much better and opening up so many more possibilities in terms of input.


I've signed 3 NDA's in the last 18 months for 3 different software projects that will run on Windows, OSX, WinMo6.x, Symbian, MeeGo, Linux, and Unix. Two of them have patents pending, and one is currently available to use. Though I am not a developer, I was chosen to consult on these projects because of my knowledge of the software development process, the current and most advanced tools available for mobile, and the channels to distribute and proliferate software. I doubt these professional entities nor the professors at my university felt I lacked knowledge of software as an industry. But opinions are like belly buttons...

The UI must be thought out, but with today's tools, almost anything can be created in short time. Nokia will prove this with their Qt UI toolkit for Symbian and MeeGo. Watch how Symbian and MeeGo device makers differentiate their devices with this simple tool. Artists create UIs. Scientists create runtime infrastructure and APIs. Big difference, and you put too much value on thte former and too little on the latter.

Then we read about how Dalvik VM is a last generation Java based custom virtual machine. Wrong. The Dalvik VM is a JVM on steroids, fully optimized for mobile platforms and recently, Google has even created a new JIT compiler (available on Android OS 2.2) that improves its performance by many times (can't recall exactly how many but I leave it up to the OP to do his homework if he's interested...).

Did you know this Java VM is not compatible with normal Java? Did you also know Google intends to charge users and manufacturers extra for that optimized engine to make Dalvik apps run faster? Does it sound like Google wants to enable technology across society, or just to those willing to pony up extra to not have the older slower version?

Mozilla... that's a funny topic to bring up. People who have used Chrome have now come to realize how slow Firefox is. The Mozilla people are holding to their guns and keeping the threaded model for each tab and it shows in the performance of the browser, especially when you use plugins like Flash. In any case, why in heavens do I need Firefox on an Android phone when they have the fastest mobile browser ever? It's faster than the iPad's Safari, it's **certainly** faster than **any** Nokia phone, BY FAR.

...not so fast. First of all, compare apples to apples. The fastest FULL browser with on-device Flash rendering is the N900 Maemo Browser, powered by Mozilla. No other browser is compatible with more web content on a mobile.

I prefer Firefox for its Add Ons, which trounce Chrome extensions. Speed and performance have been a non issue for me on the desktop, and having support from desktop to mobile is a plus. Chrome/Chromium is close on the N900, but not enough for my taste. Mozilla seems more committed to multiple platforms and architectures, so they win for me.

Then just to finalize because I'm still outraged by the original post, the author says: "I believe Qt will realize the mission Java never accomplished(...)". Ridiculous. Java has at this point beaten C and C++ to the punch in terms of popularity: http://langpop.com/ and the programming language will never be a barrier for mobile development. Actually, I find Qt and Symbian development archaic at the best, no one wants to use Qt and actually Qt is a framework, comparing it to Java is in itself ridiculous and reveals lack of education in programming. You will never have write-once-run-anywhere with Qt because even if you have the Qt libraries available across many programming languages, you'll still have to rewrite the code as the actual programming language is different.

That's all I wanted to say.


Java may have won the popularity contest, but also the immaturity contest. It lacks the permissions, speed, or efficiency for next gen apps. Java didn't mature enough, and developers have long begged for a replacement. Ask a dev or two about mobile development, and why its not a smartphone tech anymore. Apple ditched it, MeeGo may as well, and Google and RIM reinvented it, albeit not to anyone's satisfaction for going forward for the next decade.

Qt, when ported to any OS, is like a Rosetta Stone to speak to the native runtimes underneath. I'm well versed in the Qt ecosystem and how it works, having consulted on a couple of projects past and current. I know this: You'll NEVER make a VLC, Google Earth, or Skype Desktop with JAVA. Or a decent web browser. Just not happening, and not enough permissions available for the project.

I'm not as uninformed as you may believe...
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Postby christexaport » 10 Jul 2010, 20:32


yc1437 wrote:I dunno any kind of programming advantages fr. symbian. I just a plain user & N97 is the phone i own that push me to the android/iphone side. Why? Simply because N97 sucks!


Here's a big one. If you program for iOS or Andriod, you must do that development in a vaccuum. Symbian development can share code with WP7 if using Silverlight, or it can share code with Windows, Linux, Unix, OSX, and MeeGo with Qt.

As a developer, getting your code in as many hands as possible is the goal, and no other OSes or ecosystems help this more than Qt/Nokia.
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Postby dscobsct » 10 Jul 2010, 21:59


i think the point is that symbian already has the foundations for being a mobile computer, that these ui first os's are still trying to grasp at, all the frameworks are in place for symbian to catch up with these others in the places its lacking, but will then be compete in all aspects, and everyone else will be playing catchup again because they look great, but need the backend reworking to get the functionality that symbian has basically had all along to go into the next 5 years, hell i was using my symbian phone as a mobile computer when the first gen ipod came out, and i still cant find another platform as versatile. and im not even gonna start on meego. i think you have to be of a certain mindset or in a particular situation that you need your phone to do real computing work to appreciate what im on about
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Postby christexaport » 13 Jul 2010, 17:56


+1, Mikey Tommo. + freaking 1!!
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Postby dscobsct » 13 Jul 2010, 18:49


:yeah:
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Postby christexaport » 14 Jul 2010, 15:21


I'm sick of so many people that should know better making statements and assumptions about smartphones and converged device OSes. Especially the staff at Engadget. I'm going to put a couple of those guys on blast tonight, and take off the gloves this time. Maybe cause a little controversy and draw some attention...
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